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It has been three years since the Supreme Court's conservative majority abruptly departed from precedent to uphold a federal ban on a particular method of abortion. Emboldened, foes of reproductive freedom are pressing new attacks on women's rights and health. In Utah, Gov. Gary Herbert, a Republican, has signed a bill that would criminalize certain behavior by women that results in miscarriage. It was prompted by a sad and strange case last year in which a teenager who was seven months pregnant sought to induce a miscarriage by hiring a man to beat her. The measure exempts lawful abortions, and particularly worrisome language about "reckless" acts has been removed. But the law still raises concern about zealous prosecutors using a woman's difficult choices to open an investigation.
Laws, Lies and the Abortion Debate
Article Source: The New York Times- Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.
- Public Discussion (19)
It appears that this will not end until women are stripped of all personal rights...
What a sorry state of affairs!
- 7 votes
#1 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:38 PM ESTWhat women had no idea they had responsibilities before they had rights??...OMG, chalk one up folks...I had no idea. Thank god women have others to point these things out, where oh where would we be, thank goodness people can think for us.
- 5 votes
Chasencash, long time no see! Did I miss something in the exchange between TO and myself?
*Grins*
I thought he was admitting that women took responsibility for the rights we have....and should not lose them!
no, huh?
Good to see you, thanks for dropping in!
*smiles*
~Sara
- 3 votes
What women had no idea they had responsibilities before they had rights??...OMG, chalk one up folks...I had no idea.
Then why the hubbub regarding chargeing pregnant women and girls with murder for having miscarriages caused by "intentional or knowing" acts?
"Intentional or knowing!"
Observer: Because it is their body, their responsibility, not yours or anyone elses. Seems interesting to me that often the same people who do not want to be responsible for other people's health care issues also try to assert some sort of care or responsibility when women exercise their own rights over their own bodies. Not saying you are one of the anti-health care people, just marvelling at the way people want to butt in and chant personal responsibilty and then pretend that women have none.
Hey Sara, been somewhere else for a while, this place can be toxic.
- 5 votes
Then why the hubbub regarding chargeing pregnant women and girls with murder for having miscarriages caused by "intentional or knowing" acts?
"Intentional or knowing!"
TO, you know why the hubub...I think...that it is just another way to chip away at the legality of abortion...another "tool" if you will, to use against women who will then have abortions at which point, THEY...will say if it is murder to try to intentionally miscarry...why then is abortion not illegal since it is intentional as well....
(gee did all that come out right?)
This is why the hubub....the girl charged was 17...and obviously not very bright! To pay someone to beat you at any time in your life would be considered less than intelligent....don't you agree?
But to start to investigate ALL miscarriages...? The reality is that most if not ALL miscarriages are had by women who want to continue the pregnancy...! So isn't this going to be a bit "spanish inquisition" like??
The frontal attack is not working .....guess they figure its time to try another approach.
- 5 votes
Then why the hubbub regarding chargeing pregnant women and girls with murder for having miscarriages caused by "intentional or knowing" acts?
"Intentional or knowing!"
If you're talking about the Utah kerfuffle, you're simply lying through your teeth. The bill attempted to criminally prosecute miscarriages caused by "intentional, knowing, or reckless" acts. Further, the wording of the "legal if only one of these following three conditions" section is such that all three conditions can easily be simultaneously met by a miscarriage.
Nice try.
- 2 votes
Thanks for dropping in Jack....you put the truth in a neat little package, and just hand it over! Wish I could do that, I get a bit wordy!
They'll try anything they can to get what they want....and I'm guessing they just want to control us ....kind of gives new meaning to that song "Every move you make, I'll be watching you."
- 3 votes
Thanks for dropping in Jack....you put the truth in a neat little package, and just hand it over! Wish I could do that, I get a bit wordy!
Heh, no problem. I see no point in coddling liars on the Internet. :-P
They'll try anything they can to get what they want
Indeed, taken by itself, their persistence is admirable. It just seems like there are better applications for such persistence than "Dammit, I will f--- you over!"
- 3 votes
Indeed, taken by itself, their persistence is admirable.
oh I agree, I just wish they were fighting for the fully grown woman that has a life and perhaps children and truly should be trusted enough to make a decision based on what is right for her, at that point in her life. I think that tactics that they use really speak for themselves, the (in my opinon) pornographic pictures they post up on bill boards and carry around...should be outlawed.....I don't find them any sort of educational for anyone! They are meant to be horrific and cause guilt and shame...and then they have the audacity to wonder why women feel some sort of guilt when faced with the decision to terminate a pregnancy. If they would only get their acts together, and realize that using lies and deceit really doesn't help their cause....and now to add insult to injury to question a woman that has miscarriage, and try to get some "dirt" on her in order to press charges??? This is nothing short of criminal in itself.
~Sara
- 3 votes
Pregnancy is a unique situation. A woman has the right to control her body. The question becomes what, if any, rights the fetus has and what is society's role in protecting it. I oppose late term abortion except if the woman's life is endangered. Some states have laws that charge a man with the murder of a fetus if he kills a pregnant woman. It seems Utah is carrying this a step further.
- 2 votes
#2 - Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:23 PM ESTLate term abortions, as far as I have ever been made aware of, or have seen documentation for, are performed only in the instance to which you refer.
Rights of the zygote, embryo or fetus are the rights assigned to it by the person carrying it, as far as I am concerned.
As for the law on fetal homicide, we have them here in Florida, they have nothing to do with legal abortions, or the rights of the embryo, without regard to the mother.
- 3 votes
As I will never be pregnant and do not know enough science to determine when human personhood begins, I will remain undecided on these issues for now.
- 2 votes
#3 - Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:10 PM ESTRed, for those that are anti-abortion, it is indeed the personhood issue....
Thanks for commenting, you certainly have a right to feel as you do, it is a shame that it is more or less the "taking of a side"....unfortunately it appears that way.
Would that there was a middle ground....I think it is in education,etc....
Thanks,
*Smiles*
~Sara
- 3 votes
Hi Sara!
It is difficult to approach... this whole abortion thing. I am cmpletely 100% pro-choice, as it is my body and no ones busisness. Late term abortions are not done as the pro life people would like to think, and I am sure if it happens how awful it must be for the woman involved.
With this whole discussion, (not on this thread but on other abortion threads) I feel like lately women have been reduced to property and incubators. The pro-lifers think that no matter what, even through rape we should at all costs carry the pregnancy to term. That is none of their busisness... the lies and crap that people pull is ridiculous. I am sure I will get lit up for that one but I really don't care. Men seem to be the biggest pro-lifers out there, and they just don't get it. Yeah, that is stereotyping... sorry.
I do appreciate your post, and how you are calmly expressing your opinion. You have my admiration.
E
- 2 votes
#4 - Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:00 PM EDTHi E...I appreciate your nice words...I try very hard not to be confrontational, I truly would like to be able to discuss things realistically, and find out if there is some middle ground that can be reached. I'm finding out, however, that those that are fanatically against abortion at all costs, have no middle ground. Things are not all black or white, there are so many shades of gray and until it reaches out and touches them or someone in their families...they seem not to see it.
I read an article not long about about a woman that had to have a late term abortion and how horrific it was for her and her husband to finally come to the realization that it was the only answer....I actually cried as I was sitting there (in the dr's office) reading it. It's a terrible thing for a woman to go through,and the poor husband, well, you can imagine how helpless they must feel.
As for this new law they are trying to pass....these guys are politicians which means they are just as slimy as the next one when it comes to getting what they want...and they will use anything no matter how absurd to try to chip away at the legality of abortion laws now. If I see it....I'm sure it has to be plain as day, and hopefully those that will be voting on it will see it as well!
I'm with you sister! A point that I do not see made enough when adoption is brought up, is that women that can have children are under no obligation to provide women who can't with babies! I find the whole carry to term than give it to some poor woman who can't have children just another step in adding guilt and shame to an already festering situation.
Thank you for stopping in....feel free to leave comments, I'm all up for discussion!
*smiles*
~Sara
- 3 votes
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